Introduction
In this episode of The Magic Book Podcast, I speak with Charles Greene III, a professional magician whose dedication to preserving magic's history has made him one of the field's most important researchers and authors. With over three decades of experience in corporate presentations and trade show performances, Charles has made significant contributions through his groundbreaking research, particularly in the area of vintage magic posters and forgotten figures from magic's golden age.
The Evolution of a Magic Historian
Charles Greene III's magical journey began in his hometown of Hackensack, New Jersey, where he witnessed a performance at a local church fair. His deeper exploration of magic started at the Hackensack Public Library, where a pivotal moment occurred when he discovered a magazine cover featuring magician Dale Penn. As Charles recalls:
"Here was a magician who looked like me on the cover. He had this great look, confident. He had the doves flapping, and he was on the cover. I was like, 'Wow! This is great!'"
This discovery sparked what would become a lifelong passion for magical literature and performance.
The Tannen's Years
The foundation of Charles's magical education was built at Tannen's Magic Shop in New York City. What began as a single visit with his mother evolved into weekly Saturday pilgrimages that would shape his future. He remembers:
"I say that I grew up magically in Tannen's. I say 17 floors above Times Square at 1540 Broadway when that's where my Tannen's was located."
These formative years at Tannen's introduced him to both the art's greatest practitioners and its rich history, as he spent afternoons learning from legendary close-up magicians like Sol Stone, David Roth, Frank Garcia, and Harry Lorayne.
From Performer to Preservationist
Charles's path to becoming a corporate trade show magician began with Scott Hollingsworth's Cashing In on Close-up Magic, which led him from restaurant magic to corporate entertainment. A turning point came when watching Dick Ryan perform for Sikorsky Helicopters:
"I thought, 'I can do that.' And it wasn't a thing of arrogance where it's like, 'I'm better than him.' By no means. But it's like, 'I'm doing magic similar to what he's doing. I need to change my style. It's not a tuxedo. It's a three-piece suit.'"
This insight launched a successful career performing at trade shows worldwide, while simultaneously fueling his growing interest in magic's history.
Building Digital Resources for Magic History
In 2000, Charles established MagicPosterGallery.com, the web's largest collection of vintage magic posters from 1890 to 1930. His interest in posters was ignited during a visit to George and Sandy Daily's home in York, Pennsylvania, where he encountered hundreds of magic posters. As he traveled for trade shows, he would visit collectors across the country, building his knowledge and appreciation for these artistic treasures. He explains:
"I realized that I needed information at my fingertips so I could recall what posters I had, what I had seen, different bits of information about these performers... I thought I'm going to put everything that I have online and create a resource, not only for me, but for everyone else."
This digital archive has since become an invaluable resource for collectors, historians, and magic enthusiasts worldwide, serving as both a research tool and a visual testament to magic's golden age.
The Mystery of Ionia
Charles's first book, Ionia: Magician Princess Secrets Unlocked grew from his fascination with a single poster he discovered in 100 Years of Magic Posters at Tannen's. The story of Ionia, whose real name was Clémentine, proved to be a complex puzzle spanning multiple countries and languages. As Charles describes the challenge:
"It's written in French. It's written in English. It's written in Swedish. It's written in Russian. Danish, it's really deep and hard to find. But I was driven to pull it all together."
His persistence would ultimately result in the most comprehensive account ever written of this fascinating figure in magic history.
The Power of Methodical Research
Charles's research methodology reflects his tenacious approach to uncovering historical details. During the pandemic, he made breakthrough discoveries through online connections with archivists and historians worldwide. His philosophy is clear:
"There's always another rabbit hole in which you may fall and follow. There's always a thread. I saw this picture somewhere and there's a citation. And if I follow that citation, 'Oh, look, there's an author.'"
This methodical approach has enabled him to uncover countless forgotten stories and connections in magic's rich history, piecing together narratives that might otherwise have been lost to time.
Decoding the Friedländer Legacy
Charles's second book, A Complete History of Friedländer Lithography provided a crucial tool for dating and authenticating vintage magic posters. The Friedländer printing house created some of magic's most iconic images, including posters for Houdini and Kassner. As he explains:
"If you have a Friedländer poster, you're very fortunate to begin with because it is such great lithography, is that there is generally a four digit number... by knowing that number or using that number, you can learn the date that your poster was printed."
This breakthrough in dating methodology has become essential for collectors and historians studying these important artifacts of magic's golden age.
Current Projects
Currently, Charles is working on two significant biographical projects: a comprehensive look at Charles De Vere, Ionia's father, and the story of Frank Joseph Godsol, who played a crucial role in early Hollywood history:
"He took his millions along with some from the DuPonts and some other people from Chase Bank of New York invested in Samuel Goldwyn's company... and then in 1924, Frank Godsol negotiated and created the merger with Louis B. Mayer and Marcus Lowe that formed MGM, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer."
Through these works, Charles continues to illuminate the unexpected connections between the world of magic and broader entertainment history.
The Spirit of Community
Charles's approach to collecting and preserving magic history reflects a deep sense of responsibility to future generations. His perspective on stewardship is clear:
"I realized that I'm just, I mean, as I've always known, I'm a caretaker. People have things, we're caretakers. The posters I'm looking at, they're a hundred years old. I've had them for a period of time. I'm going to pass them on to someone else."
This philosophy has inspired him to freely share his discoveries with fellow researchers and collectors, strengthening the bonds within the magic history community.
Cherished Magic Books
While maintaining a focused magic library, certain books remain particularly special to Charles, including 100 Years of Magic Posters and Bruce Elliott's Classic Secrets of Magic. Of the latter, he shares:
"It's one of the books that I have my original copy that I bought back in Hackensack, New Jersey. And I still do one of the magic tricks in there. It's The Ambitious Card that if I have to do magic for someone and I don't have to think about things, it's something I've done around the world in thousands and thousands of places."
This enduring connection between his earliest magic books and his professional practice demonstrates how foundational texts continue to influence even the most experienced performers.
Conclusion
Charles Greene III's contributions to magic history exemplify the perfect union of passion and purpose. From his early experiences at Tannen's Magic Shop to his groundbreaking research and publications, his journey reflects an unwavering commitment to preserving magic's rich heritage. Through his meticulous documentation of vintage posters, comprehensive biographies, and decoded historical systems, he has created invaluable resources for future generations of magic historians and enthusiasts.
His ongoing work continues to uncover the fascinating intersections between magic and broader entertainment history, while his philosophy of stewardship and sharing sets an inspiring example for future generations. By embracing both traditional research methods and modern digital platforms, Charles has made magic's golden age more accessible and better understood than ever before, ensuring that these important stories and artifacts will be preserved for generations to come.
Timestamps
0:00: Introduction to the Episode
0:25: Meet Charles Greene III
1:44: First Live Experience with Magic
2:31: Magic Book Encounters in the Library
3:32: First Magic Book Purchase
4:18: Impactful Magic Books
5:36: Connection to Tannen's Magic Shop
9:22: Transition to Corporate Magic
11:33: Starting Out Without an Agent
12:19: Creation of MagicPosterGallery.com
14:16: The Story Behind Ionia
17:29: Research and Writing Process
22:11: Clémentine's Early Performances
24:51: Ionia's Magical Heritage
25:01: Connection with Ionia's Niece
28:05: Ionia's Extravagant Lifestyle
30:15: Memorable Adventures and Publicity Stunts
35:08: Visual Aspects of Ionia's Story
36:49: Researching Friedländer Lithography
37:16: Understanding the Friedländer Serial Code
42:34: Upcoming Biography of Charles De Vere
44:32: Exploring Frank Godsol's Life
46:56: Approaching a Broader Audience
Books Mentioned
The Illustrated History of Magic by Milbourne Christopher
Expert Card Technique by Jean Hugard
Cashing In on Close-up Magic by Scott Hollingsworth
Ionia: Magician Princess Secrets Unlocked by Charles Greene III
A Complete History of Friedländer Lithography by Charles Greene III
100 Years of Magic Posters by Charles and Regina Reynolds
Classic Secrets of Magic by Bruce Elliott
La Magie S'Affiche by François Voignier
Suzy Wandas: The Lady with the Fairy Fingers by Kobe Van Herwegen
Carter Beats the Devil by Glenn David Gold