Julie Eng, Genii's New Executive Director

Coming up in this episode of the Magic Book Podcast.

I love magic and I love this community and I love magic

history. I love contemporary magic. I love what magic has

done for me and I've seen the power of what it's done for others and

I think it has a lot to give the world and I want to be a

You're listening to The Magic Book Podcast, conversations about

classic and contemporary books that teach, illuminate, and

celebrate the art of magic. I'm your host, Adrian

Tennant, a lifelong student of magic and mentalism, occasional

performer, and longtime book collector. Thanks

for joining me. Welcome

to the very first episode of The Magic Book Podcast. To

launch this new venture, I'm joined by the one and only

Julie Eng. If you don't know Julie, well, she's

a highly accomplished magician based in Toronto, Canada.

Born into a family deeply immersed in magic, she's been

performing for over three decades. Since 2004, Julie

has served as the Executive Director of Magicana, a

Canadian organisation dedicated to the exploration and

advancement of magic as a performing art. Under

her leadership, Magicana has developed numerous educational

programmes introducing magic to diverse audiences.

Julie is also the editor of Magicol, a

journal of magic history and collectibles, and

with Magicana has been instrumental in the creation

of two landmark projects, The Magic of

Johnny Thompson, and most recently The Rich Cabinet Collection,

a nine-volume set of essays by the late Dr Eddie

Dawes. Julie's contributions to magic have earned

her recognition from the Society of American Magicians. She's

been featured in all of the major magic publications, and

she's been a regular presenter at Magic Live. Julie,

welcome to the Magic Book Podcast. It's truly

Your father, Tony Eng, was a well-known magician.

I was literally born into this. And because of

my dad, I had this magical childhood. I

was involved right from the very beginning. I have a younger sister. We're

very close in age, only 17 months apart. As far

back as my sister and I can remember, we've been on stage with

my parents doing some part of the show. So

I've always had magic in my blood, and we grew up with

it around us in the home. Everywhere we went everyone

knew my dad was a magician. So there was magic happening at all times

every single moment of my childhood What was it like

growing up when your dad owned a magic shop? That's

a very good question. It's my whole childhood,

my high school years, it was all

very fun and chaotic and normal, very normal too.

But when your dad's a magician and everyone knows who your dad is, especially

in our small community where I grew up, the schools, for

example, all the teachers knew who my dad was. They've all

had him down at the school for fundraising shows. Or

they all came to the shop. Everyone wanted either a birthday party, or

they had a 50th birthday party to go to, or they needed a

magic trick because They have a family event and

they wanted to be able to do something for their family. So, you

know, my dad had this very strong presence. I grew up on the West coast

of Canada on Vancouver Island in the capital city

of Victoria, British Columbia. It's a small town, but a

big town. It's a capital city. So it's also a port city where

a lot of people come and there was a lot of tourists in

that part of Victoria where my father had a shop. So my dad,

he was the ambassador of Victoria. He was a

self-proclaimed ambassador of the city, but he was very proud of

the city. So he would be

a part of that community and he'd be a big attraction with the

magic shop, but he also loved people. So my sister and

I, we had this really beautiful childhood of constantly being a

That's another great question. I'm

very lucky. You know, my dad, being a magician, had

a little library and he was constantly reaching

for it. And what's interesting is that when

I went back to look at them as an adult, I saw how he would

sign his name inside the book. First, it was his Chinese name,

like his stage name, and then he had his name and then his formal name.

Like, you could see the maturity, in other words, of a person

who is moving through his magic career. So I had this very wonderful

bookshelf to draw from. But as a kid, where do you go?

You go with what inspires you and what drives

you and what captures your imagination. And in

our house, we had this magic bookshelf and it was with an

encyclopedia set. We had a Britannica set. And

I think we had something very similar to The Encyclopedia of

Magic. And I'm holding this up for Adrian to see, for

your listeners, Adrian. This is the Encyclopedia of Magic by Dr. Edwin

Dawes and Arthur Setterington. It's

a great book. I remember this book really,

really well. And I'll tell you why. It's because when you flip through it, it's a combination of

great history in magic, contemporary magic of the time, you

learned magic, but it had these great images

that just captures the imagination. And for me,

that was very powerful because as a kid, you see a range

of magicians in here too. You see female partners, you

see Shimada, for example, is in here. He had a very strong

influence to how my father would think

about performance. And I think that just rubbed off on me. So it was a really

great book. As I say, when I look back, I think

we had a slightly different version in the bookshelf at home. I

happen to have this one here in Toronto. But wow,

like the cover of this particular volume has Mark Wilson floating

and levitating Nanny Darnell. It's just, it's beautiful.

And if that doesn't capture an imagination of

And a British book at that! Lucky me! I've

heard you say that you weren't delivered by a stork

but pulled out of a hat. So Julie, was

Well, it seems that I was pretty destined to be in this world and

in this career track, but yeah, that's the other part

of it. Starting in magic so early and

being a part of this world so very young,

it put me through my own experience of growing up

in a household of magic. And so what I mean is when you

have so much magic going on around you at

such a young age, and it's a part of who you are and your life,

What are you supposed to do when you're growing up? You're supposed to expand your horizons and

go further and learn other things. So I felt

like it was an interesting time because I think for me, I

don't think for my sister, but for me, my experience was

I had this idea that, you know, I was always the daughter of

Tony Ng, right? I had this expectation in front

of me. I had a reputation that always preceded me

with my dad. And I adored my father. Of

course I did. And he was a great mentor to me. as well. But

I think it was also really difficult as I look back now as

an adult to my younger self to adjust, to

have the self-confidence to be an individual. And

I think there was some confusion about my own identity because everyone

told me I was Tony's daughter. So, you know, you adopt that

kind of thinking and way of being. And I think it did

give me a kind of an identity crisis when I was in my teen years, but

it's like every teenager, you know, it's hard trying to figure out who you are.

So, There was a point where I sort of started to

step back a little bit. It wasn't sure if that was for me. But

at the same time, I also found it

was the right place for me because my dad had me a

part of the show at such a young age. I did actually feel

very comfortable there and I helped him a lot. I was on

stage a lot. So I was learning behind the

scenes and on stage with him, but not having that thrust

of responsibility of being the performer all the time. So I could

observe, I could feel and see what it's like. And I think that was

You did go to college and you studied commerce. How

did you balance your magical interests with your formal education?

Well, that's again, thanks to my parents. By the

time I was getting ready to go to university in Victoria, my

dad had really established the magic shop by then, Tony's Trick

and Joke Shop. And it was a great place for

me to also learn and it looked very natural for me to take a commerce degree

and then to turn around my business skills and to push the shop forward. And

that is something that was an interesting challenge for

me because I wanted to learn more about the business world. And

yet I had this very interesting, you know, playground,

if you will, an experimental field to play in. And it

became really interesting as I got into studies because, of

course, as one progresses through university, the classes go

from very large to very small, but the responsibility of

presentations, papers, and so for the commerce degree

that I had, it was all based on report writing, analysis,

and presenting our findings. So presentation for

me is the last thing I had to worry about. And

I found that was a really natural place for me to be. I

was very good in being in front of people, I was very relaxed. And

I then found that obviously using something like

magic to sort of leverage my points that I wanted

to express or to make it memorable. All those great

things that magic can do for public speaking, I was

learning and found that that really gave me some terrific

advantage. And I got more confident because of

that. And I really found at that point, maybe this

magic thing is really good for me. And I started to perform a

little bit more too, just outside of school. And I think that also

showed me the viability and the commercial

prospects. But it was challenging at the same time, because I'm

still comparing myself to my father, right? I don't think

the world necessarily was, but I was. So it

was a challenging balance, but I found that university really

helped me find my own place in the world, and it

allowed me the freedom to then stretch into who I wanted

to be. And I think that's really when I discovered magic for

myself. Magic always chose me up until that point. So

now I got to choose it, and I found that that became a

very powerful step forward, and I really haven't looked

Once again, let's thank my dad for that opportunity. Believe

it or not, it's a convergence of my dad

knowing somebody here in Toronto when I was

still living in Victoria, British Columbia. It's miles and miles

away, five hour flight. And after

I finished university, I was coming to Toronto to visit a friend of mine from university.

She had just moved here and she was getting settled in a new job. And

I thought it'd be fun to come and visit her. So the one thing my father's famous

for is when he was traveling around, wherever he went, he would pick

up the phone and call a friend in that town and just say, hi, I'm in town. I

just wanted to say hi. So because I was going to

Toronto, he picked up the phone and called his friend, David Ben.

And he said, David, my daughter's coming, and she's probably going to pop by

and say hi. So David was very gracious, and he extended that

invitation to me to a lunch. And one

conversation led to another, and before I knew it, I had

signed a contract to come and work in Toronto, to

work with David. And it was a big moment for me to make this choice

because in Victoria, I had this very set

routine. I could do a lot of shows in a weekend. I would do

very well at Christmas time. The shop was busy. My life was set,

but it was very restricted. And here, this opportunity came.

I could reject all of that and try something new. And

I was intimidated by it. But my father being dad just said,

you know what? It's time you try something else. Like he

was so confident in who he was. He

wanted something else for me. And so he really pushed me

to go further and to try something else and not be

stuck inside of a routine that was predetermined by

him. So I can't see that now as

an adult, as I look back on all of this, but wow, what

a selfless kind of act pushed my career first.

And he pushed me knowing, I think that other things were destined for

me. Maybe he couldn't define them, but he knew David,

for example, was doing the show and he said, you're going to learn things that

I cannot teach you. I cannot teach you anymore. He told me, and

that scared me. So he took me

from that place and he put me into a new place. He

set me up with someone like a new mentor, like David, and

David then had hired me for the show. And I was only supposed to do the

show for three months and it's been almost 30 years now. So three

Well, we'll talk about your major publishing projects

in a moment, but how did your role at Magicana evolve over the time you were thereGenii

It's such a great evolution for me because

I was invited to be a part of a project. It was part of the community

projects that Magicana was working on. But before that,

David was still doing these theatre shows. So I was involved

with that. So I got involved with production very early, as early

as 2000. But off and on, as projects came, we

worked on them together. And then as they rounded off, I

went away and David would work on other things. But an opportunity came

up in 2004 where we could take a

community idea where we would bring magic to children in

at-risk communities and present them with this opportunity to

learn magic and to really try to break down barriers and

to give children an opportunity to learn. and to see the

power of magic, not just having sleight of hand, which

was always fun, but the power of presentation, the

power of knowledge, the power of practice, and

the power of self-esteem and self-confidence. So

this is something I could definitely get behind, and we got really

involved in 2004 with that. And then that

expanded to a seniors program. So we worked at one end of the spectrum to

the other. Again, just very project oriented. So

things would ramp up and then they would complete and another project would ramp up

and then that would finish off. And as that happened

between 2004 to 2005, it got very

exciting because things were growing and we were

applying for grants and they were coming through some major grants to really

build infrastructure for Magicana. to manage these projects,

to scale them. And that was my job, scaling them. I was a program director.

But as I did that, then more projects came up.

They mushroom out of magic. And

that got into production and then more, you know, company management. And

then there was publication projects. And then it just, I

look back, Adrian, over 20 years, and then it's amazing at

If you're enjoying this episode of the Magic Book Podcast, please

consider leaving a rating on Spotify or a

review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you. Julie,

let's talk about a couple of the significant publishing projects

you've been involved with. Firstly, The Magic of

Johnny Thompson is a two-volume set published in

2018. It captures Johnny's lifetime of magical creations

and insights, featuring over 660 pages

and 1,100 photographs. Can you

tell us what prompted the creation of The

That is such a great project. And it

was a long project for us at Magic ana, but

it was long for Johnny and his co-author, Jamie Ian

Swiss, because it was done over a long period of time

for a variety of reasons. One, Johnny had so

much material, and Jamie was in charge of tracking

Johnny Dance, getting him to talk about it, writing it all

up, refining it, moving to the next trick. You know, it was so

crazy. It took a long time for Jamie

to build these routines and to build the history and

to get it just as Johnny did it. This was

going to be the definitive work, and it is, of the magic

of Johnny Thompson. But Johnny had such a massive

interest in magic. It was, first of all, very vast.

And then on top of that, He kept refining and changing

and introducing new moves, new touches, new

variations. Then a whole new trick would evolve. You know, it's

just, that was Johnny. He just kept going. So Jamie had a

very challenging job trying to keep up

with this dynamo of energy that is Johnny Thompson. But

he did it and it was challenging because of course through

all of this everybody's working, everybody's traveling and

Johnny and Jamie were both very busy separately living and working

in their lives on top of everything else. But I guess

it was at one of our conventions here in Toronto that Magicana

was hosting where Jamie and Johnny could

see that they'd brought the project to a certain point but they were ready to

kind of move it to the next level. And that's when my colleague

David Ben got involved and it sounded like it was a

great project for Magicana to take on. We had just published a few other

books and we're really happy with the quality and the work that

we put into those and we were associated with other books. This

was a great project for us. I was very comfortable taking

on the sort of project management of it all, steering the whole thing. So

it landed in our court, and that got

to be a really interesting and dynamic project. It was constantly changing

because, again, there's just so many parts to manage. It's

a very diverse set of books because the magic is just so broad.

It goes from close-up to illusion. Like, it's just amazing

at Johnny's breadth of work. So there were definitely

challenges along the way to manage all of that. Slowly but

surely we get the team together and everyone starts refining, honing,

gathering, and steering it. And I

went through the design process and trying to bring things into

a look and feel that everybody could get behind. And

that takes time, you know, it's difficult to imagine what it's going to look like.

We had to get it right since it's a multi-volume set. So It

was also fun because working with Johnny, that was a

privilege. And I knew Johnny as a kid, but

I really got to know him during his visits here in Toronto with

the conventions we'd hold or the productions we would do. And

so he really started to trust Magicana, the judgment of

Magicana. And he would really let us

take the lead on putting things together like the book and

the design. And it got very exciting when we

started doing the photos. which were a whole,

that was a whole experience in

What was it like for you shooting the photographs for The

Well, I don't live in Las Vegas for one, so

it was multiple trips out to Las Vegas. Johnny Thompson

had the craziest calendar schedule for

a man of his age. You know, he was constantly working

or squeezing in appointments, trying to do these shots with

us. And I enlisted some help and I

got a dear friend, Jason England, to, to help

me find space. And then we got the great Stan Allen,

helped us find some more space. And because Stan's convention would

allow us an opportunity to say, use some of the convention rooms,

or we would be able to work on warehouses, you know, it was a lifesaver to

have these spaces available. And Jason helped me

set up lights, and then we would rope in another friend, our Paul Wilson,

to help us. It just became a team thing. And

Johnny made it so much fun. It was challenging, but

he always made it fun. And he's like this, he's an

old pro. He would get dressed, so he's in the role. So

he'd bring his suits down, and he'd have the right looks, and

he's in costume. He would walk us through the trick so we

knew exactly which version he was going to do for us. So

we would have to then map the trick with the photos and I

would have to mark that down and sort of track what's going

on. So while there are about 1,100 photos, I

took well over 4,000. So it

was quite an editing process for us back in Toronto.

However, the shooting of it was a riot because there's always

these crazy shots that one has to get. And

the one great thing is Johnny was like a father figure to me.

So there was a lot of. hey, can you move your elbow? Okay,

can you just move your face for a second? I'm getting in his space

trying to get my giant camera all around him and he's

holding this ridiculous set of, I don't know, multiple breaks or

three buckles in a row. Like it's crazy with some of the moves

he would do that I had to capture. And so there's Jason trying

to give me some more light and me crowding on, I have described it

as trying to do some oddball magic twister game, you know,

trying to, find the right combinations, but we did it.

And Johnny wouldn't quit. We would go easily

12 hours, easily, because I'd only have so much time in

Las Vegas. So we'd set everything up and he'd show up

and he would just plow through this. And it was amazing because

I had to get these shots per trip. I mean, I had about four trips

to Vegas. So it was really a joy

to work with him. It was crazy. There were long hours. It

was very difficult. Some of the times I had to retake a bunch

of pictures because he's making me laugh so hard. You know, he's telling us a

great joke or it's always a great story. One of

the effects has a little parakeet. So Johnny, you

know, borrowed a beautiful bird from his friend Lance

Burton. And so there's the bird. The

bird was very displeased with us. So

we were chasing this, he got out, and oh

my goodness. So everyone's doing their best, but

you hear this loud cry from Johnny, he goes, oh

my God, and he didn't say that, he really, mm-hmm, mm-hmm,

mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But the little bird's beak had

gotten Johnny's finger. So,

oh, but we got him safe and sound. We returned him safe and

sound. The bird, not Johnny. But

I mean, it's crazy, right? Doing a magic shoot like this, but

we got birds, we had bunnies. We didn't use the bunny in the end,

but we had coffee. Jason got me a lot of Corona as

Let's shift gears now and talk about the Rich Cabinet

Collection, a nine-volume set compiling

500 magic history essays by Dr. Eddie Dawes, originally

contributed, of course, to the Magic Circular over a period of five

decades. Julie, you seem to enjoy big,

audacious challenges. Can you explain what

So I thought the magic of Johnny Thompson was difficult and challenging. And

it was. And I was really proud of it when it came out. And

I thought, wow, I could never do that again. And then

this nine-volume set project shows up on my

desk. It's one of those things my colleague David Ben

would say, I've got a good idea. And

then it somehow becomes my projects. So we were in a meeting one

day, and we were talking about the Rich Cabinet columns,

and I hadn't seen them. I mean, I'd seen them, I was familiar

with them, but I hadn't read them. And it turns out David, like

a lot of collectors had, is sort of segregate those columns

and then collect them in their own separate file. And he had a

pretty big file. But I don't have them all, he said. I said, well, how many

are there? And then the next thing you know, we're calling Dr. Dawes. Eddie,

wouldn't that be a great thing if we could collate all of

your essays and into this one? And it turns out Eddie

had tried variations of this project. As you know,

various forms had taken shape and

it is a really challenging project for many, many reasons.

The size, first of all, it's huge. It's over 3,000 some

odd pages, the R version. But as

you said, it's written from 1972 to 2020. So

the breadth of material, the size, then

there's the coalition of it, because some stories are

attached to other stories many decades later, or vice versa, like

there's a series of them, one after another. How are

you going to deal with all of that? So there was a lot of challenges that came up.

But as we were discussing the idea of this and

we learned about other versions of it, you know, Eddie shared with

us this is something that he really wanted was a collected set.

You know, it's a pretty big accomplishment for him to have written 500 articles.

And at the time he hadn't finished writing them because the conversation started

end of 2016 early and we were supposed to start in 2017. And

for a variety of reasons, the project had to be juggled. And

then the magic of Johnny Thompson had to get finished. So

my nonagenarian had to wait for me to catch up to

him. And he did. So

Eddie is in Hull in England, but Adrian, his

son Adrian, was visiting Hull at the same time. He

lives in America now. So I was invited to go to Dane

Hill to basically absorb some of the collection

and to get a sense of what the articles had

in terms of illustrations and where the inspiration came from. So

I'd never been to Dane Hill before. oh

and people were starting to prepare me before I went on my trip

but nothing can prepare anyone for that experience and

it was so special and it was one of the biggest private

collections in the UK so it's a huge huge

huge collection of unbelievable stuff

and we were like having these treasure trove discovery after

treasure trove discovery and luckily Eddie's son

Adrian was there to take down boxes and to open up cupboards

and to pull down more boxes and then to open yet another box. It

just It was a magic trick in itself, how A, all

of it fit in the house, and B, Eddie Dawes knew

where every single piece belonged. He knew

which room, which drawer, which cupboard. I mean, he's famous for it. When

we started digging around and I started to get a sense of how big this

project was, I definitely got intimidated. But

with the Dawes as your guide, no one can go wrong because

Eddie took it very methodically, one

by one. He said, why don't we start at the beginning? It was such a

great, it was such a great idea. I said, okay.

So we pulled out the first rich cabinet. He had them in

a collected form and we started going through them and it was so

joyful to see how we could find things. He

would tell me about things we would capture those things either

in a scan or a photograph and we'd move on so

for a couple of days we did this and of course, I

only scratched the surface it was just a smidgen

of what I needed but it sure got me going and

The next thing I know we're coming home. We're working on the design. We're

working on the looks And how do we handle these

challenges? What about this timeline? And all of those things

started to be discussed. And Eddie and his

son, Adrian, would always get on to a Skype call with me

and walk me through stuff. And we would just chat about

it. We would brainstorm about solutions. It was

such a joy to work with this family and to figure out this

project but a long time had passed between 2017 and

when I started really getting the designs nailed down. So

Eddie had aged a little bit and it was getting harder and harder for him

to hear me and it was more challenging for him

to travel so you know we did a lot of it by Skype. and

luckily his family also helped communicate, showing what

I was up to and getting edits done. He edited, he

went through all 500 articles a couple of times, so

we were able to add updated information, new information. In

fact, I had volumes three and four sent

up to the printers. Everybody had approved everything. I

was at the printers and he wanted a change for volume four

because new information had come to light. And he goes, I

want it in there. So for Eddie, I pulled the page, we

made the correction and we did it. So that was quite

something to work with that level of professionalism and

his devotion to the work. to the truth, to

his research, and I got the joy to

also share the material that the

community was offering us as the publisher to put into

the Rich Cabinet. That was a really big part of the community stepping

up and saying, I have that, I don't mind giving a scan for

Eddie's project. All kinds of people who both knew

Eddie and didn't know Eddie they would contribute to the project. It

was really incredible to me how people recognize

the importance of this particular set of books. So

it was quite a project that spawned quite a few years, but

Right. A slightly sad footnote, of course, is that Dr

No, sadly, very sadly. How can

I say this? He was 90, 96, 97, but

you know, he weathered so much, right? He'd

been through so much and he had an

illness that he came back from and everybody thought, Oh, that was not

good, but he had gotten better and things looked actually quite

good. But then he caught a cold and it was just one

of those things. You just didn't expect to sort of escalate so fast

in the sense of seriousness. But, you know, I guess

the previous illness had definitely taken a toll on poor Eddie.

He was such a trooper. We were corresponding about

the book. He had seen everything digitally of volume three

and volume four. And I received a set from the printer

and it was like, I think a Friday, and I had flipped through

the book and it looked great. They'd rushed it down to me. I

packaged it right back up. I ran back to the UPS

store to ship it over to the UK so

that he could see it, knowing that he was in the hospital and

they would have been there overnight. but because he's

in Hull it needed one more day to get to Hull and

being on the Sunday it didn't arrive and of course that was

when Andy passed away so it was sad on

many fronts but at the same time there was some peace to

know that he had passed quietly and peacefully and you

know it was quite a journey that I got to ride with the

Dawes on this particular project and to see the vitality that

Eddie brought to the project was inspiring. You

Well, the Ridge Cabinet Collection and The Magic of

Johnny Thompson. Julie, what do you hope these publications

will contribute to preserving magic history?

I hope that it demonstrates the power of

the magic and the legacy of their creators. You

know, for Johnny, Johnny lived a life that was

always dynamic, organic, and changing. He was

a person of the times. He kept up with The relevance of

magic today and so he was constantly learning

Constantly working with people of all ages and

he was performing not so much in his later years But also

coaching, you know, he was teaching what he was learning and

coaching and at the same time learning from the coaching he was Constant

and his book reflects that you know the work gives

you a foundation of the kind of individual that

Johnny was. It gives you a sampler of his interests, of

his work, but also of his

personality in many ways when you think about it. And you get to see

what it takes to carve out a career in magic with

the magnitude of someone like Johnny Thompson. And much can

be said the same for Dr. Dawes. Eddie was so

diligent, determined, and devoted to uncovering

the truth. The majority of his research for more than

half of the Rich Cabinet, he did in libraries, actually

in the stacks, or going through microfiche. Like, we have the modern tools

today. I could do it comfortably here in my home in Toronto. He

was a biochemist too, a leading biochemist, and he headed up

a whole department at Hull University. He had a whole other

full-time academic job writing and publishing. So

he would time a lot of his academic travel to

budget in visiting special libraries or special collections

or meeting with collectors. So he could make notes

on his index card by hand about the pieces that he was researching.

I mean, that kind of devotion to research and

to locations or to uncovering the

truth, you know, about a subject, that's part of this giant

legacy of this nine book series. It's also a way

of looking back at history, both in context of

a modern time and also what it was like to have that

kind of entertainment in that period. I

mean, he's all over the map with where he goes in terms of the

visits of Thais. In the 1600s, he's in the modern 2000s.

It's all over the place. And it's a very friendly way

to dip in and out of magic history. These are very friendly

reads. They're not dusty reads. He makes it

really fresh and interesting in a very conversational way.

You can see why he got obsessed with trying to dig a little bit

more, to find out a little bit more. And as the reader, you get kind

of pulled in. You go, so what happens next? I

think for Dr. Dawes' work, it's to show also

that we have such a rich history in magic. The foundation is

quite deep and strong, and there's a lot to learn from

there. And I think if we look a little bit, we can actually learn

A reminder that you can be notified when new episodes of

this podcast are published by signing up on the website at

themagicbookpodcast.com. Julie,

after two decades at Magicana, you're leaving to

become the new executive director of Genii, the

conjurer's magazine. On the Magicana website,

your colleague David Ben wrote, Julie is

Carl Germain's blooming rosebush incarnate. She

started at Magicana as a seed and has now grown

and blossomed into an unstoppable force for

which there is truly no immovable object.

That's a very nice tribute. Julie, many

Thank you. Yes, it's very overwhelming to have this

I'm honored to be one of the first people to be able to quiz you

about this. How did this

Well, you know, I think it's a very interesting time because

we're all in this transitional period. And what I mean by that is

several pieces were moving on the board at the same time. For

example, Richard Kaufman is now

finishing up his 25th year as the editor of Genii. I

mean, that in itself is a tremendous run.

I think I calculated 300 issues he will have completed. And

we just talked about a nine volume set. So he's on his way there. And

I think that with that level of devotion and

what it takes to edit and to steer a magazine for that long,

a monthly magazine, it was coming to a time where

Richard was feeling maybe it is enough now, you

know, 25 years. Because Richard's wanting to

do Richard things. For example, he's working on the Greater Magic

book. And that is just such an incredible achievement

and project. And he's really exploded it

into this fascinating community project in many ways.

But he needs time. He needs time to be able to work on that. And

he has other books bursting in him. So that started to

percolate for Richard. You know, he's thinking about changing, maybe leaving

and retiring. And he has a crew that was working

with him. So, you know, they have all been very devoted, but also

everyone feels that pressure of that monthly deadline.

And it's a killer, it's a killer. So that was brewing away.

And then our work at Magicana was evolving. We were changing,

projects were shifting. We used to do a lot of productions. We

kind of steered back into publications. Then we were making

another turn, more like foundational giving programs, like

we did with the Alan Slate Awards. So it was dynamically,

everybody was shifting and moving. And what happened was,

as Richard signaled his retirement, the owner of

Jeanne, Randy Pitchford, He was very gentle

about it, but he said, things are changing. And at Jeanne, I

see a whole other possibility that the

magazine can really become a part of something

bigger. And he started to outline a

vision of what he saw. And it was very exciting because

it's about expanding the idea of learning magic. being

a community, being essential to magicians. So that

was very interesting to hear. And when all of this started to

change, when Richard did announce his retirement to Randy, and

here Magicana was also making shifts to move away from publishing,

And, you know, my role was changing there too. So it was

a good opportunity for me to maybe make a new

shift as well. We're all in this two and a half decade mark. Magicana

is, you know, in its 24th year. Richard's finished at 25 years.

I've been, you know, 20 years at Magicana. Like, we're all in that.

We're all ready. So my colleague David was

also ready to change his role from being artistic

director. He was ready to shift it a little bit and change the direction.

So this all sort of moved in a very organic

way in many ways. And when the opportunity was

presented to me by Randy and supported by Richard,

I couldn't resist because it just sounds like so

much up my alley and exactly the kind of area that

I'd be very interested to be a part of. And of course it

is. I mean, I love magic and I love this community and

I love magic history. I love contemporary magic. I love

what magic has done for me and I've seen the power of what it's

done for others. And I think it has a lot to give the

When I heard the news and congratulated you, I think I

told you I've been a Genii reader for well over 40 years.

Genii's always been part of my magical life and I'm sure for many,

Yes, yes. And that's the thing, right, Adrian? Like you've seen it

change and grow too, as a longtime subscriber. And

I think that's what the job of that genre media

should do. It's got to shift and change to the times. So

I am very excited that we have this precipice

that we're all balancing on and toward and

I know people listening are going to want me to be more specific with

you, so I know it's early days. You officially take

Could you share your vision for Genii under

Yeah, sure. I'd love to. I mean, it's about shifting

it from one form, the magazine, and

really playing off of that and exploding it up

and out and opening the doors. We want to really invite

all kinds of community members into Genii. And what

I mean by that is building up the awareness of

Jeanne as not only a magazine, but also a content provider.

We have great content, as you know, and

we have great columnists who have wonderful insights to

share. So I'm not going to be editing the magazine. We

brought on a new interim executive editor who is Jim Steinmeier.

And Jim and Richard are old friends. Richard had this

brilliant idea to reach out to Jim to see if he'd be interested, and

he was. And we are so fortunate because

it's a really interesting transitional period as Jim now

has accepted that role and is starting to think about what does his

editorship look like. He wants to take an interim role. It's to steer us

into his new Genii. And I think that's

definitely inside and part of the vision that we have for Genii together. And

as a group with the Pitchfords and Magic Castle Enterprises,

it's about reuniting the idea of magic at the community.

So Magic Castle Enterprises, of course, owns the Magic Castle. And

it's about, again, unification and bringing Genii

back into that conversation. And also not

limiting it there, but opening up the doors so that people who

may not be aware of Genii can also be invited in.

There's a whole new generation, I bet, that don't really know what

Genii is and was. And I think that this is

a great opportunity to invite them in and to

maybe bring it to an online platform and to go

beyond just the digital version we have now. And that's part of my vision

is to build a community and to build access One

of the neat things that we're doing with this giant shift and change is

that Magicana is also supporting the shift by

giving Genii the online assets that we have on

our website. So we will move and migrate the screening

room where you can see all these great videos of magicians

of yesteryear. You can have some of the online exhibitions that

we have there. We will migrate over to a new Genii website. And

that's to give people a chance to just dip their toe into a

little bit of magic's history. Nothing too dense, but something

interesting. There's also a whole host of essays

that give us context and insight to how to

think about and to look at contemporary magic. So

we want to build this space and to build upon what Magic did.

So not, you know, not doing more of the same, but definitely looking

to new areas and expanding that and eventually bring more

of the magazine's content into the digital realm. And I think that

will also, as I said, not only invite people, but bring accessibility to

our international friends. Postage has been a killer

for publishing. It's just been brutal. And

as I tell you, as I shift nine book sets around the world, it's

really challenging. But it's hard on

our international friends because they want to be a part of this news

and they want to share some news. But having it locked down

to this one form of a magazine in the pages make

it challenging, just cost alone. So by,

again, building up this digital access, we can give people new ways

of engaging with us and seeing the content for Genii. So

that's just a part of it. My other job will be to grow some

of the publishing division as well. And it's really exciting

having the history I've had at Magicana and working with individuals that

I've had the great privilege of working with. I think that there's some, again,

more opportunities to share, to expand. We

can build a library that is both how

to, maybe we might do some history, I'm not sure yet. We

have some projects. percolating in

the background, but the great line is, I'm

not at liberty to say just yet. I

I know they will. And you teased this news when we

first were talking about the podcast a couple of weeks ago, and you didn't tell

Yeah, but it's an exciting period because I think this

is a chance for everyone to get a new perspective. And, you

know, you've read Jeanne for so long now. I think you've seen a

variety of different voices that have come and what that does

to the magazine, right? Bring new energy, perhaps bring

obviously a new perspective. And I'm really excited because Jim

Steinmeier, in the pages of Geniis very soon will

be sharing some of his vision and I

think that it will be very exciting because we're going to look at

really shifting some of the content as well. So it's going to be quite dynamic.

Are you allowed to share with us when we might see the new

Yes, I'm happy to tell you that's going to happen the new new

Wow, not that far away. I

It's a little scary. I know. But I mean, Richard and his partner,

Elizabeth, and his associate editor, Dustin Stinnett, they've

done this amazing thing where they have brought

Genii into this wonderful hum and routine. So

they've paced all of their content for the next few

months in this beautiful way, freeing us

to have this opportunity, our new secret editorial team,

to build, you know, and to think about how we want to see.

So we've got a little bit of time to bond and to find that space.

I can say that we are looking at shifting things around and

I'm hoping that readers will find that intriguing and interesting

and as we get closer and closer to our new

Genii date, Jim and I and the pages of

Yes, you will. I'm going to be at Magic Live. I'm delighted to

say. I'm going to be at the Genii booth, so come

on by. I hope that your listeners get a chance to swing by

and ask me in person. You can ask me anything. I'm not sure what

That's a great question. Magicol, I have come

to really love. This is a passion project. And

one of the things you'll discover if you visit Magicana's website is David

Ben has posted a lot of news about the changes happening.

And one of those changes is that Magical is going to be

reverting to me. So not only will I be the editor, I'm

going to be the publisher as well. So, Magical has

become this really fun project, as I was saying,

because I've gotten to know so many of the contributors and

we've been able to really bring some neat stories to life and

I design it, we edit it as a team and I've

got a great team of volunteers. It's really incredible at how

many people contribute. and work for Magical because

we all love it. And I'm very excited because under

the tenure that Magicana has taken care of it, so that's since

2010, it's grown a lot. It's shifted. First it went through a

design overhaul thanks to Michael Albright. And then the content

started to change, thanks to David Ben, who was its previous publisher. And

now that I've taken over, we're shifting things in new

directions. I'm constantly meeting new people in

this community who have great information, who've done

terrific research, or have written some wonderful pieces for

us. And so right now we're just on the cusp

of finishing a three-part series by Gary Hunt and

Michael Claxton on the escapists and of that

female escapists from years before vaudeville. So

right up to vaudeville. So it's a really fascinating look at

women, how they carved out their careers, the fascination

with escape artists, artistry for women, and

how did they get in and out of that literally and figuratively. and

the different characters who pop in and out and what happens

to them. It's really quite remarkable. And

that's Gary Hunt. He really took a deep dive

into this. And with some research work with Michael Claxton,

the pair of our series, The Escapists, they have put together

this incredible collection of information. So

I'm happy to say that we're just about to do the third part. So

my first issue is the publisher will be issue number 200 and

Excellent. I'm really excited about all the news you've shared with

us Julie. Well, as this is the magic book podcast, you

told us about your first magic book. Julie, what

is your most cherished magic book and

Hmm, that one's hard. That one's really

hard because I have a lot of cherished books.

I've received some from friends. I've received some from my father. I've

worked on some. I found some. I think

that one that moves me because of

its genesis and how I was involved is

one called Buried Treasure. and I guess aptly

named, and that was a special publication that Magicana did for

our conference, 31 Faces North, and it was for our

last conference. It turns out to be our last conference, and it was a

book where all of the attendees contributed a piece, and then

we had this, what they thought was a good buried

treasure, something that wasn't necessarily the best trick,

but what was something that they thought was a great buried treasure,

and they submitted it, And we all worked on it from different angles.

So there's contributions, there's illustrations, there's publications. But

when we brought everybody to the conference to hand out each

copy, it's a beautiful book. Michael Albright helped us design the

cover and I designed the interior. But when we came to that point

where everyone got a copy, it became like a high school annual.

And the tradition is everyone's got to sign their piece, right? So we were like,

signing our yearbooks. And

I have one of the most treasured sets of autographs

and inscriptions because of that, because we got to work

together. We had our friends gather together and they

wrote really beautiful and meaningful things for me. And it

means a lot, you know, it's because it's about friendship. It's

about magic, magic, bringing people together, magic, healing

old wounds. And magic really defining

us as a community in all the good that we see magic with,

you know, all the good that it contributes. So that's,

Julie, thank you so much for being my very first guest

I've learned so much from Julie in this episode. How

growing up in a magical family shaped her career and

passion for the art. The challenges and rewards

of publishing landmark works that preserve magic's

rich history. And of course, Julie's exciting vision

for the future of Genii magazine and the magic community at

large. I hope you enjoyed listening as

much as I enjoyed speaking with Julie. You've been

listening to the first episode of The Magic Book

Podcast. You'll find a transcript with timestamps and

links to resources mentioned in this episode on our website at

themagicbookpodcast.com. If you have

a question or would like to suggest a topic for a future episode,

please contact me. Adrian at themagicbookpodcast.com. You

can also leave a voicemail on the website's contact page.

Since this is the first episode, I want to say a

huge thank you again to Julie for

trusting me to help share her exciting announcement.

Thanks also to Kieran McRae of Platform Podcasting

for the coaching, Tom at podcastpages.io for

tech support, and Rhett Withy Designs for the podcast

visual branding. But most of all, thank you

for listening to the Magic Book Podcast. I've

been your host, Adrian Tennant. Until next time,