Now You See Me Live on Broadway

Adrian Tennant [00:00:01]:

[MUSIC FADES UP] Coming up in this episode of The Magic Book Podcast.

James More [00:00:04]:

As magicians, I think people feel sometimes that we're just out to fool them or to trick them, but it's so much more than that to us. You know, we, we want to make people feel something.

Darcy Oake [00:00:14]:

The thing that I'm looking forward to the most in the show is also the thing that I'm not looking forward to the most in the show. I'm doing an escape stunt that leaves me with that anxiety feeling throughout the day leading up to it because it's dangerous.

Gabriella Lester [00:00:27]:

Every time I look out to the audience, there's a bunch of kids. You know, you see all these kids that are too small to fit in their theater chairs that are looking up at us on stage like we're superheroes.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:00:36]:

It feels like we are in a movie and the audience connects instantly. And it really is that gasp and scream, incredible moments of magic happening all around you within 3 minutes.

Adrian Tennant [00:00:48]:

You are listening to The Magic Book Podcast, conversations about classic and contemporary books that teach, illuminate, and celebrate the art of magic. I'm your host, Adrian Tennant, a lifetime student of magic and mentalism, occasional performer, and longtime book collector. Thank you for joining me. [MUSIC FADES OUT] This episode is a little different. On Wednesday, November 11th, four illusionists begin a strictly limited 8-week engagement at the Al Hirschfeld Theatre on Broadway. Now You See Me Live is inspired by Lionsgate's film franchise and produced by Tim Lawson and Simon Painter, the team behind The Illusionists, the best-selling magic show in Broadway history. Since its premiere at the Sydney Opera House last December, Now You See Me Live has played Australia, Singapore, and London's West End. On stage, the 4 performers are the Horsemen. Off stage, each took a very different road to get there.

Adrian Tennant [00:01:55]:

In the weeks leading up to opening night, I spoke with each of the 4 Horsemen separately, and I started every conversation by asking about their start in magic. First, Darcy Oake is a Canadian illusionist from Winnipeg who became the first magician ever to reach the final of Britain's Got Talent. He's since performed at Windsor Castle, played Broadway with The Illusionists, and escaped MrBeast's 10-minute tower. [MUSIC] Darcy, welcome to The Magic Book Podcast.

Darcy Oake [00:02:29]:

Well, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.

Adrian Tennant [00:02:32]:

Your magic origin story begins with your dad, sportscaster Scott Oake, who found your chosen card and then let the mystery stand for weeks before admitting he'd simply guessed. Why did that moment stay with you?

Darcy Oake [00:02:50]:

It was that feeling of being fooled and not being able to explain what I had just witnessed firsthand in front of my eyes. And my family has a unique sense of humor. We always say you either get us or you don't. And, you know, for that to work out for my dad, in his mind, he's like, oh, I gotta milk this. You know, this trick worked out. So he let it fester. And it was literally that time after of not knowing how it worked and me being desperate to know how this impossible moment happened that just like got me fixated.

Adrian Tennant [00:03:21]:

Well, as a teenager in Winnipeg, you learned at monthly magic club meetings and borrowed VHS tapes from some of the older members. Darcy, I'm curious, were books part of that education too?

Darcy Oake [00:03:37]:

It's funny, like to a degree they were, but not as much as I would like to say they were. This was pre-YouTube as well. So I used to send away to the Society of American Magicians public video library, and they just had archival VHS tapes, and they would mail them to you. So I would get like a huge box of VHS tapes, and I would sit there with 2 VCRs and copy them all over and then send them back. And you know what, it was really a lot of the FISM competitions that were on there, like from the '80s, that like I would sit there and just watch everyone do their acts. It was mostly the stage stuff that really fascinated me. So, I would go through old FISM competitions and see guys doing their 7-minute acts. And that's what really sort of got me on the bird act bandwagon, if you will.

Adrian Tennant [00:04:24]:

Matthew Pomeroy is an English mentalist and magician and one half of The Conjurors, the award-winning duo he formed with his partner, Natasha Lamb. In Now You See Me Live, Matthew's the Horseman who hosts and ties the whole show together. Matthew, welcome to The Magic Book Podcast.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:04:45]:

Thank you for having me. This is a treat.

Adrian Tennant [00:04:47]:

Every Horseman has a moment when magic first hooked them. What was yours?

Matthew Pomeroy [00:04:54]:

So I'm a theater kid. So for my childhood, all my friends were playing football or sports, and I would always go and get the day seats to the local theater, and I'd sit at the back and be immersed by the theatricality of the world that surrounded me. And it didn't really matter, to be truthful, if it was magic or a play, a musical. I just soaked in that world. And that was my bridge to wanting to be on the stage. Then I saw Barnum with Michael Crawford, and that had magic in it.

Adrian Tennant [00:05:23]:

Mm-hmm.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:05:24]:

And that made me fall in love with magic. Then I went down this loophole of all of the magic that I could find and became obsessed overnight. And then here I am many, many moons later.

Adrian Tennant [00:05:35]:

Hmm. Well, you got your professional start in magic at Butlin's, which is something of a British institution. For people who don't know, it's a chain of seaside camps actually dating back to the 1930s with hosts called Redcoats.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:05:50]:

Yeah.

Adrian Tennant [00:05:51]:

So, Matthew, as a two-time Redcoat of the Year, what did Butlin's teach you about audience management?

Matthew Pomeroy [00:05:59]:

Everything. It was a place to be free and explore. They gave me a microphone every night and 2,000 people and just said, “Do what you want.” There were no limitations, no restrictions. I could just play. And that play allowed me to find beats and timing and how to react and interact with audience members. And I was so blessed that they would just say, “Listen, you're working on a brand new routine, try it. You've got this idea and concept for a show, do it.”

Matthew Pomeroy [00:06:26]:

And they had state-of-the-art lights and dry ice and all of the fun things to explore. But it also taught me tech, lights, how to look at the industry and show business behind the scenes, as well as front and center on a stage.

Adrian Tennant [00:06:42]:

Gabriella Lester is a South African-born escapologist and magician raised in British Columbia, and at 22, the youngest of the Four Horsemen. She's a regular at Hollywood's Magic Castle, has appeared on Penn & Teller: Fool Us as a performer, as well as being an associate producer on the show. Gabriella, welcome to The Magic Book Podcast.

Gabriella Lester [00:07:08]:

Thanks so much for having me.

Adrian Tennant [00:07:10]:

You were about 10 when the Canadian magician Shawn Farquhar, a two-time world champion, performed at your middle school in British Columbia. 2 years later, you were performing on that same stage. What did that first show spark in you?

Gabriella Lester [00:07:29]:

Honestly, I don't remember too much about the show. It was more my interaction with Shawn after the show. I do remember he made a kid cry at some point during the show. But the interaction that really sparked something for me was after the show. I went up to him to get an autograph, and he took the Sharpie and put it up his nose and pulled it out his mouth. And seeing magic happen so close to my face is what really sparked my interest. I wouldn't say it was the making-kids-cry-on-stage bit that did it for me. But it was that particular moment of just experiencing it so close to my face.

Gabriella Lester [00:07:58]:

And then I remember sitting in class for the next few weeks trying to put a Sharpie inside of my brain because that's how I genuinely believed the trick was done until I realized, of course, it's not.

Adrian Tennant [00:08:09]:

Earlier this year, Connie Boyd joined me on the podcast to discuss her book, “The Power of Magical Women,” which includes a profile of you. In it, you say that when you decided to learn Houdini's upside-down straitjacket escape at 14, most of your mentors tried to talk you out of it. Gabriella, what made you trust your gut on this one?

Gabriella Lester [00:08:38]:

Honestly, I don't know. It was just this desire to pursue this thing that was different, and so much of it was passion-driven. And I think at the time, I was so passionate about what I was doing that I didn't really care about what anyone else thought. And I just had this vision, in my head. At the time when I started it, I was hanging upside down on monkey bars with my arms to the side pretending to be Harry Houdini, and some part of me just thought that it was always gonna happen. And of course, there was probably some self-doubt when I have everyone around me telling me that I shouldn't be doing this thing, but I was just so driven by what I wanted to do. And more than anything, I think it was just passion. I think I was so obsessed with magic history and with Houdini and with these sort of escapes that I wanted to accomplish it purely on a passion base.

Gabriella Lester [00:09:22]:

It wasn't even a career thing. It was just because I loved his work and I loved these things so much that for me, I just wanted to do it because of how much I loved it.

Adrian Tennant [00:09:30]:

The fourth Horseman is James More, an English illusionist whose Britain's Got Talent audition became a YouTube phenomenon. He has since performed with The Illusionists and made his own Broadway debut a decade ago. James, welcome to The Magic Book Podcast.

James More [00:09:50]:

Hi, Adrian. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Adrian Tennant [00:09:53]:

Your first piece of magic was a card trick you built at the age of 8 from a shoebox and sticky tape, which I believe you entered in a school talent show. So, what did it feel like to fool the adults that day?

James More [00:10:09]:

You know, it wasn't just the magic trick that was in my show. I was actually very inspired by the circus as a young kid. My mum tells me I used to want to run away with the circus. So, I was learning some easy circus skills, a bit of juggling, a bit of plate spinning, things like that. I also was into ventriloquism and magic was, you know, it was an interest, but I was more into the, I'd say the circus and the ventriloquism at the time. And I put the magic trick in just to kind of fill the time. I sort of searched around my house for some objects I could use, found the shoebox, found a deck of cards, created this magic trick. And after the show, all the adults, all they spoke about was the magic trick. “How did you do the trick?” I think that had quite a profound influence on me as a child because it, for the first time, I sort of realized, “Well, the adults don't have all the answers and I've kind of got one over on them here.”

James More [00:10:57]:

“This is interesting.” So I started reading more magic books and buying, you know, Marvin's Magic sets. They were kind of like kids' magic sets at the time. I used to save up my birthday money and Christmas money and go and raid the toy shops for these magic sets. And that was kind of what started my path into magic. So, yeah, it was that moment, I think, fooling the adults with the magic trick that changed my path to more the magic route rather than anything else.

Adrian Tennant [00:11:23]:

Now, I recall doing magic as a kid can get kind of mixed reactions. How did your classmates react?

James More [00:11:30]:

Yeah, it certainly wasn't a cool thing to be doing, you know, especially with a puppet! As well, you know, like, but you know, it actually was received very well from many of the teachers and they sort of saw this passion for performing in me, and I used to get leads in a lot of the school productions. I was part of a church school at the time, so I got the role of Jericho in the school production. And yeah, so it had its advantages and I got to miss classes. And in fact, there was one lad at my school who was like the school bully, and I used to get him out of class with me to come and help me to do the magic shows. So he sort of befriended me for that reason. So in a certain way, it sort of helped me socially within my school.

Adrian Tennant [00:12:10]:

Long before they became Horsemen, each performer had a breakthrough moment, the point where magic stopped being a hobby and became a career. We hear from Darcy first. In 2014, you became the first magician to reach the final of Britain's Got Talent, which was the UK original of America's Got Talent, with that dove act that you'd been refining since you were, what, 10 or 11, I guess, at that point?

Darcy Oake [00:12:38]:

Yeah.

Adrian Tennant [00:12:39]:

How did that moment change the trajectory of your career?

Darcy Oake [00:12:43]:

Oh, it changed not only my career, but my life too, because up until that point, like internally, it was always this weird sort of battle where like, I'm fascinated with magic and I love it. And it hadn't really necessarily been fully publicly accepted into being this like art form that people had a lot of respect for. So I was sort of always torn between like, “is this cool?” Like, “I think it's cool and I love it” but I was maybe self-conscious about it still out there. Like, grinding away and, you know, doing cruise ships and any shows that I could. So actually backtracking a little bit, funny story was in high school, like I'd been working on that dove act since I was 11, 12, whatever age. And in high school, I'd be doing shows around town. And one of like my biggest fears throughout high school is that someone from my school would be at one of my shows. Because I was always just like internally conflicted.

Darcy Oake [00:13:35]:

Like I know how kids can be cruel and I knew it was this like, thing that wasn't necessarily like perceived as super cool. So I was working away, rehearsing this dove act, doing shows anywhere I could, but then I'd also be petrified that someone from my high school would find out. So I kept it secret for as long as I could. And then at my high school graduation, I was like, “you know what, forget it.” And I, I busted out the bird act at one of our school assembly things and everyone went crazy. So that was a pivotal moment. And then to do it on Britain's Got Talent, it was like, I still didn't know the impact that it could have. Like, I was young and naive and just hungry and would perform anywhere.

Darcy Oake [00:14:12]:

In a way, like, naively fearless, which sort of paid off. But then to get that sort of stamp of approval from Simon [Cowell], he basically said all of the things that I was internally conflicted about leading up to that. Like, he touched on how cool he thought it was. Like, he basically gave me the stamp of approval in all of the ways that I was questioning, and that just internally changed my approach to everything, whether it was shows or whether it was my own opinion on things, it was sort of like, “okay, well, if I thought this was cool, then other people will too.” And that didn't really resonate with me until you sort of have this bigwig give you that confidence kind of thing. So it was a whirlwind. Like, going on that show changed everything for me personally, career-wise, just my outlook on things. Like, it was life-changing in every way.

Adrian Tennant [00:15:03]:

Well, the very first guest on The Magic Book Podcast was Julie Eng, who, as executive director of Magicana, oversaw the Allan Slaight Awards, sponsored by the Slaight Family Foundation. And in 2016, you received the Sharing Wonder Award. Darcy, what did that recognition mean to you?

Darcy Oake [00:15:24]:

That was such a touching thing, to be honest. So I've known Julie Eng and her father Tony since I was a kid, like, so just starting out. And so for it to kind of come full circle that way was, that was really special to me. So it came with a cash prize and I was like, “I have to do something with this. I can't just, I'm not just accepting money for, you know, doing magic,” like that type of thing. So I sponsored some kids through the College of Magic in South Africa, another place that was really touching when I got to go visit there. And that type of thing. So I felt that was important because the award was Sharing Wonder and I wanted to allow other people who maybe didn't necessarily have the means to sort of explore the art form.

Darcy Oake [00:16:05]:

So their support throughout the years has been incredible. Julie's just the sweetest person on the planet. We randomly bump into each other at like a magic convention or in Vegas or something, and it's like you get that warm, like home feeling. She's just the kindest person and has been in my corner since I was a kid. I can't speak highly enough of them. Tony Eng and Tony's Trick and Joke Shop, which then Murray Hatfield ended up taking over for a while. And Murray was such a big part of my life in my early career as well. So that whole camp of like the Vancouver magicians and the Pacific Coast Association of Magicians has been really monumental in my career.

Darcy Oake [00:16:43]:

So yeah, I can't speak highly enough of them.

Adrian Tennant [00:16:45]:

And coincidentally, Gabriella Lester, your co-star, she received the very last Slaight Award in 2024.

Darcy Oake [00:16:53]:

Oh, amazing! I didn't know that. That's awesome.

Adrian Tennant [00:16:56]:

Matthew Pomeroy and Natasha Lamb's Las Vegas show, Cabin of Wonders, won a Best of Las Vegas Award in its first year. I asked what that residency taught Matthew about performing the same show night after night.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:17:12]:

My favorite thing in the world. The reason that we wanted to do Vegas and it was so on our radar is exactly that. I want to do a show once a day, 6 times a week, or even twice a day. It makes us better performers. We find moments after the show that I can implement almost immediately, and the beats are faster, the pacing is quicker, the routines are more punchier, and our show's 90 minutes, but it's different to our theatrical show. Our theater show breathes more. There are more moments of relaxation and pauses and stories. And Vegas has that, and there is light and shade, but also, you're performing to people that aren't necessarily theater people.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:17:53]:

They're there because they're in Vegas and they want to see the show. So you have to make that accommodation as well, but it's great. Cabin of Wonders, as you said, won the Best New Show in Vegas. Our second show, Secret Wonders, was the highest-rated magic show in Las Vegas as a Google Award that we received. And yeah, my favorite thing is to be on that stage every day and to work on the show and find tiny changes that make it better week after week.

Adrian Tennant [00:18:21]:

Gabriella was the youngest performer to work at the Magic Castle, the Chicago Magic Lounge, and House of Cards. I asked Gabriella what each one taught her.

Gabriella Lester [00:18:32]:

More than anything, I felt really honored that I had the respect and trust to be able to work in these places. More than anything, you know, I saw these talent bookers look at me with trust to be able to put me in those positions. And so, that was something that really mattered to me. And so much, as I'm sure you know, magic is connections and community and everything. Everyone's one degree of separation away. So these relationships with people really matter. And so many of these people that are in charge of booking these venues have gone on to be great friends and peers. And, but it was definitely a special experience.

Gabriella Lester [00:19:01]:

I mean, I was dreaming as a kid that one day I'd just be able to visit the Magic Castle. So being able to perform there the first time I ever went there was so special. I mean –

Adrian Tennant [00:19:09]:

Yeah.

Gabriella Lester [00:19:10]:

I was 17 the first time I performed at the Castle, and I could only enter and exit through the stage door. So, the first few years I was performing at the Castle, I never saw the rest of the building. I walked in through stage door and I left. So, all I saw of the Castle for the first while was just the stage, which is such an interesting experience.

Adrian Tennant [00:19:30]:

While Darcy Oake was one of the first to win an Allan Slaight Award from Magicana, in their final year, Gabriella received the Canadian Rising Star Award. I'm curious, Gabriella, what did that recognition mean to you at that point in your career?

Gabriella Lester [00:19:48]:

It honestly was one of the most beautiful moments for me because I feel like everything I had accomplished up until that point in my career was something that I had worked for, something I had specifically set out to go after and chase. But that award came to me in an email when I was in my kitchen cooking dinner for my family. You know, I just looked at my phone and I got this thing, and it felt like the first thing I didn't have to chase, but it was something that came to me in recognition of all the chasing that I had already done up until that point. And it just felt so beautiful, really, to be recognized by my peers, especially Julie, who is somebody I love and admire and have looked up to for so long. So, to be even considered for something like that was so special. And I think I spent the rest of the day just lying on my bedroom floor looking at the ceiling and just – I cried, honestly, that day. It was really, really special for me to be recognized. And yeah, that was a really, really special moment.

Adrian Tennant [00:20:39]:

Julie is such a great ambassador for magic.

Gabriella Lester [00:20:41]:

She is.

Adrian Tennant [00:20:43]:

James More's breakthrough began on home turf in Blackpool. Darcy told me he learned stage magic by watching VHS tapes of acts from FISM, the World Championship of Magic, back in the 1980s. Now, I understand you performed at the closing show of FISM in Blackpool in 2012. What did that stage mean to you?

James More [00:21:08]:

So, you know, FISM very rarely has the opportunity to be in my home country, so it was a massive opportunity and to perform for my peers in front of some of my heroes. That was actually the first time Yu Ho-Jin won FISM when he was 19.

Adrian Tennant [00:21:23]:

Gosh.

James More [00:21:24]:

I remember also watching Marko Karvo with the bird act. Wonderful magician, I believe he's from Finland. And yeah, to be able to walk the same stage as people like that within my industry. It was a real honor. It really was. And yeah, it's certainly a memory that will stay with me forever.

Adrian Tennant [00:21:42]:

Your 2013 audition on Britain's Got Talent went on to pass 100 million views on YouTube. James, how did that moment change your career?

James More [00:21:55]:

Yeah, it's a crazy – it was a crazy number back at those times. I think 100 million views now is rather more obtainable, but it was kind of at the peak of YouTube and 100 million views was, it was not heard of at the time. So I remember going to Singapore and people saying, oh, you're the guy from YouTube. So YouTube was kind of the biggest door opener, I guess. We have a big dance group in the UK called Diversity. They're very famous in the UK. There's a guy called Ashley Banjo that runs the group and they were touring at the time and he saw me on YouTube. He asked me to come and join their tour.

James More [00:22:28]:

And suddenly I was performing in 15,000-seater arenas in the UK, which was mind-blowing. So it was my first insight into, you know, not necessarily being the star of the show, but seeing what stardom looked like and also working at that level and that standard. And then from there, people like Simon Painter, the producer of The Illusionists, he was also finding videos of me at the time on YouTube. And Britain's Got Talent certainly had a big platform back then to really drive talent forward and to open doors and opportunities. So, you know, I was doing cruise ships and I was doing smaller shows before Britain's Got Talent, but after Britain's Got Talent was, yeah, that certainly felt like I'd run up the ladder a little bit.

Adrian Tennant [00:23:13]:

If you are enjoying this episode of The Magic Book Podcast, please consider leaving a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple Podcasts. You can also follow The Magic Book Podcast page on Facebook. Thanks. By the time Now You See Me Live reaches Broadway, it will have been on the road for almost a year. I asked each of the Horsemen what it's like to be a part of it. You made your Broadway debut back in The Illusionists: Magic for the Holidays at the Marquis Theatre. This year you're returning as one of four Horsemen. How does this feel different?

Darcy Oake [00:23:51]:

It's funny because this is – it's different. It's a different style. So, The Illusionists was get 5 or 6 or 7 of the best magicians, put them together, we'll pick their best material and make a grandiose spectacle out of it, which was amazing. This obviously is Now You See Me Live, which is the Four Horsemen. It's an ensemble. It's a real ensemble show where everybody's involved. There's the group acts, if you will. Like, The Illusionists before was that, you know, I did my stuff and it was great.

Darcy Oake [00:24:19]:

And this is like, we're all tied together, we're all in it together, we're doing the full show together. It's a really different, unique vibe, which I think is gonna resonate a lot with not only just the younger crowd, but like the fact that just the overall vibe of it is different. It's not just everybody get your best material and let's put it together in a show. It's like, this is tied to the movie. It's a totally different approach to it, which I think is gonna be very impactful.

Adrian Tennant [00:24:42]:

Since 2016, Matthew has performed as The Conjurors with his partner Natasha Lamb, including two Las Vegas productions: Cabin of Wonders and Secret Wonders. I asked Matthew what it's like to step out on his own as one of the Four Horsemen.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:25:00]:

It's great. I mean, it's a different skill set. It's a completely different way of thinking. I see it as a theatrical production, and it's a blessing and an honor and a privilege. The team are incredible. And yeah, the Las Vegas shows with Natasha, they're fun too, and it's a different chemistry, and it's our own routines, our own theatrical nuances and effects. But Now You See Me is a standalone blockbuster powerhouse. It's goosebump-worthy all the way through, and it's a joy to be a part of.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:25:28]:

But I see those two worlds as very separate, and then there are beautiful moments where they come together. And yeah, it's an honor.

Adrian Tennant [00:25:36]:

Gabriella was in the original company of Now You See Me Live when the show premiered at the Sydney Opera House last December. I asked what she remembered about opening night.

Gabriella Lester [00:25:47]:

Ah, it was a whirlwind, of course. I don't actually remember too much about it. I do feel good that we were rehearsed and prepared enough that it didn't feel too nerve-wracking. My dad was there, which was really special for me to kind of have him in the audience when my dream at that point came to fruition. But it was just so special. I think the coolest thing for me was sharing the stage with the other performers. You know, the cast is filled with these people that I've looked up to since I was a little kid. There's so much talent in the cast.

Gabriella Lester [00:26:14]:

Everyone is so talented in their own disciplines and regards. So I think the most special thing for me was looking left and right on stage and seeing these performers that I absolutely adore and admire.

Adrian Tennant [00:26:25]:

James More's history with the show goes back further than anyone else's. Now, you were one of the original Horsemen announced when Now You See Me Live was first unveiled in 2018. James, what has it been like to see the show grow and evolve from that original announcement all the way to appearing on Broadway?

James More [00:26:46]:

I mean, it seems like Broadway's the pinnacle of any performer's career. And of course, it's extremely special. But even just to be a part of this huge franchise back then, we opened the show in China. We toured three-and-a-half months in China in many cities that people won't have heard of. In fact, we even went to Wuhan. That's the one city people may have heard of.

Adrian Tennant [00:27:06]:

Yes.

James More [00:27:06]:

So, I can't discredit the feeling at the time because although it seems like, “oh, it's only China” compared to Broadway, it was an amazing feeling to be part of this huge production, certainly with this cast. This huge backing of, you know, this movie franchise, which I'd obviously followed and watched and been in awe of. I just – yeah, it was an incredible feeling. We went to Reno, just outside of Las Vegas, to prepare for a few months, putting the whole show together, you know, really from the drawing board. And it was incredible to watch it kind of be pieced together and develop. And obviously, it's since grown, and they've taken it to Singapore. We've just finished a run in the West End in London, and now it's on Broadway, which is just phenomenal. You know, in a sense, we sort of had some time away because of COVID and I felt like this thing, maybe the wheels had come off and we'd never see it again. And then it's just come back fighting, and it seems like more popular than ever.

James More [00:28:02]:

I think people really had the need to get out of their houses after the COVID situation and go and watch live entertainment. And I think that's really sort of propelled us into the forefront of world entertainment.

Adrian Tennant [00:28:13]:

I asked each of the Four Horsemen about the show itself, their part in it, the theater, and the audiences. We'll hear from Darcy first.

Darcy Oake [00:28:22]:

Oh, it's gonna be incredible. Not only because the movies themselves have sort of reinvigorated magic and made it into something that, you know, a younger generation can really appreciate, but to put it into a theater like that, which is, you know, so notable. And it's just the style of show is so cool. You don't see that type of show in that type of theater often, and it just creates this dynamic and this energy that is undeniable. And it's really, really cool. It's like the Four Horsemen. You get to know everyone. You see this big, grandiose spectacle in just this vaudeville-style theater on Broadway in such an acclaimed area.

Darcy Oake [00:28:58]:

The energy is amazing, and to bring magic back to an old vaudevillian-style theater with this current updated vibe is something really spectacular that I think is really going to resonate with the audiences worldwide, not only just in New York, but everywhere.

Adrian Tennant [00:29:14]:

Matthew described his role.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:29:17]:

I host and thread the show together, so I'm popping up everywhere. I will introduce acts and tell you backstories. I'll explain to you Harry Houdini and how he began before this unbelievable moment in the second half. But I do a card effect, and I might do a few moments of mind reading too. My everyday ordinary is magical mind reader, but in Now You See Me, I'm kind of host, storyteller, magician. I'm around everything and will do moments of magic throughout.

Adrian Tennant [00:29:47]:

What, if anything, do you have to adjust to ensure that your effects play big in a Broadway theater versus a more intimate venue?

Matthew Pomeroy [00:29:59]:

So, Natasha and I were very lucky to do arena tours with Michael Ball and Alfie Boe, who are two musical theater performers. So, I'm used to 20,000-plus people. So, playing big, that wasn't the issue. It was more the other way around. It was learning to perform almost a live movie every night, and to have camera shots and work out where the angle of the live camera is. So to play to that on the big IMAC screen behind me, but also play to the 2,000 people in front of me. So kind of counterintuitively, I'm trying to play for one entity, which is the camera, but also the whole audience as well. So that's been the – not challenge, but that's definitely been the learning curve. We have cameras in our own show, but this is much more cinematic, look down the lens, then pivot to an audience member and then back.

Adrian Tennant [00:30:47]:

Well, Now You See Me Live has had a year of sold-out engagements, delighting audiences across Australia, Singapore, and most recently, London's West End. How do you think the show will evolve as it crosses the Atlantic?

Matthew Pomeroy [00:31:02]:

For me, there's something special about America, hence why we moved our whole life to be here. We performed at Carnegie Hall recently, and the reaction of an audience in America, I think, is elevated. The crowds are incredible, but also they expect good shows, and I love that. People here seem to be very educated in theater, and they have a standard that's fun to push and go, hopefully, past.

Adrian Tennant [00:31:26]:

Mm-hmm.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:31:27]:

And yeah, I mean, there's nowhere in the world like Broadway. There's nowhere that gives me the feels of New York City, and I think it'll be received very, very well. It's the perfect festive Christmas season show that brings the family together, but it's going to be a highlight for all of us and an exclamation point on our careers that will mean a lot for the rest of our lives.

Adrian Tennant [00:31:49]:

Gabriella Lester is the youngest of the Four Horsemen, and she lives for unscripted moments.

Gabriella Lester [00:31:56]:

Yes.

Adrian Tennant [00:31:57]:

How much of the Gabriella audiences see in your own shows comes through in the role you're playing in Now You See Me Live?

Gabriella Lester [00:32:06]:

It's a mix, and one of the cool things is this has added new things to my character onstage, for sure, because in the show, we get to try different things. You know, we're not all really doing one thing, and – Everything that I was doing in the show basically since it's opened has been brand new for me. So it's been a new challenge. So much of what I've done prior to that has been more parlor-focused and comedy-focused and crowd work-focused, as anyone who's seen my shows or work knows. So this show is a bit of a challenge where it could just be about talking or about stage presence or about audience connection or having a sentimental moment or emotions or, you know, doing an illusion or doing an escape or something like that. And those are all different. So, I think it's been interesting in the show. While I do get to stay myself and take those pieces from my regular shows with me, I've also gotta add these new skills and sides to me as an artist onstage.

Adrian Tennant [00:32:53]:

Earlier, Gabriella had told me about the high school campaign where she first performed her straitjacket escape for a cause. I asked what that reason means to her now.

Gabriella Lester [00:33:04]:

I think it's definitely always different. You know, in the show that I'm doing now with Now You See Me, one of the coolest things for me is that it's a family show. which isn't something that's too familiar for me, which means every time I look out to the audience, there's a bunch of kids. You know, you see all these kids that are too small to fit in their theater chairs that are looking up at us on stage like we're superheroes. And for me, that's a reason. You know, sometimes the reason feels like I'm fulfilling this dream that I've had since I was a little kid. Sometimes it feels like I'm someone who gets to inspire the next generation, you know? So I think the reason shifts for me quite often. In some ways, it's me fulfilling my dream.

Gabriella Lester [00:33:37]:

In some ways, I feel like I'm inspiring others to pursue their dreams in the same way I was a kid in the audience watching Shawn.

Adrian Tennant [00:33:45]:

James was thinking about some of the oldest magic effects. You've focused on illusions in your career. Magicians, of course, work with fundamental effects: appearance, vanish, levitation, and so on. How do you make a classic effect feel new for a modern audience?

James More [00:34:06]:

Yes, you're right. It is ever challenging. Nowadays, people have a much shorter attention span, and there's CGI and AI and things just working at the touch of a button. So, I think it's important to try and keep up with the times and use technology to the best we can. But I think I draw upon, you know, maybe modern trends, modern music that I can use. If there's an object or a special box that I can adapt to look like something from the modern age, then I'll do it in that sense. Yeah. And also, I'm a true believer that work is never complete.

James More [00:34:43]:

Nothing is ever perfect. So, we can look at classics and we can develop them and improve them and put a different style on them or make them something completely different to what we read in a book. So, yeah, I think magic gives us a great opportunity to reach for perfection, although I feel that we'll never actually get there. But there's always something to be improved upon.

Adrian Tennant [00:35:05]:

I asked each of the Four Horsemen about the performers who shaped how they work. Darcy Oake named 3 influences: David Copperfield, David Blaine, and Derren Brown. I wanted to know what each of them taught him about presentation.

Darcy Oake [00:35:22]:

David Blaine, being your unedited self. I got to know David throughout the years a little bit, and he's exactly the same as you would expect him to be on camera, off camera. That is him. And him just being authentically him led to his whole career. Like, he's undeniably one of the greats, and he not once has ever veered off of who he is as a person. Copperfield, I would say just the attention to detail and the fact you can't reverse engineer anything. So the magic side of things from him. And then Derren Brown, I would say like the storytelling and the letting things resonate.

Darcy Oake [00:35:58]:

Like if you were to count the number of effects in a Derren Brown show, it's probably not more than like 6 or 7.

Adrian Tennant [00:36:04]:

Mm-hmm.

Darcy Oake [00:36:05]:

And it's a 2.5-hour spectacle, right? So he's not powering through material rapidly. Like it's all connected to what he's trying to say. And the magic is the illustration of what he's trying to say. It's not, he's not just presenting tricks, you know? So Derren's ability to weave the narrative in and make the magic the illustration of that, as opposed to making it the focal point. I got to know Derren too, and we've gone out for dinner a bunch of times, and he told me he always starts with what is the sentence, what is the thing. So whether, you know, the one show is faith healing or whatever that thing is, is he'll take that narrative or that idea and then expand on it and then work the effects into that, as opposed to being like, oh, that's a cool trick. How do I tie that into my show? So, it's sort of the opposite way of thinking as a lot of other stage performers. So, yeah, each one has had their own different kind of impact on me, and I've learned a lot of different things from watching all of them.

Adrian Tennant [00:36:56]:

After Darcy told me that Derren Brown always starts with the idea he wants to express, then builds the effect around it, I asked Matthew if that's how he works.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:37:06]:

Always. We have Polaroid photos, so every time Natasha and I create a show, we find 10 to 15 photos that interest us. They have no rhyme or reason. There is no through line that we're looking for, or even subjects. We'll just go on this deep dive through books and the internet and everything, museums, art galleries, and I'll find things that I go, oh, I love that picture. Why do I like it? Then we'll get 10 or 15 physical Polaroid photos, put them on our wall, and recreate them with us in them. So, how does that feel for us? Let's make that in our own way. Then, let's look at them as a whole.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:37:47]:

“What feelings do they give us? What moods do they conjure up?” And then that will give us a basis for the show. Then I'll start to pull routines that I enjoy, and how can we make these our own routines? Then we'll custom-make things.

Adrian Tennant [00:38:01]:

Not relying on standard routines at all.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:38:04]:

Never. Every show that we do, my ethos, aim, and philosophy is: if you remove all of the magic from it, you still have an experience and a show. So, yes, I love magic. It is the core and center of everything we do, along with mind reading, of course, and demonstrations of sleight of hand and whatever it may be. But that isn't the show. The show is the connection, the hook, and the effect on the audience that sometimes the magic will facilitate, but very often, it's the stories. It's me holding their hand. It's Natasha out in the audience, standing on a chair, giving you a visual that you wouldn't expect in a theater show.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:38:44]:

The point is how the audience feel when they leave, and that's been our philosophy forever.

Adrian Tennant [00:38:49]:

Gabriella performed on Penn & Teller: Fool Us in 2022, then worked on the show as an associate producer. I asked how seeing it from the other side changed the way she thinks about magic.

Gabriella Lester [00:39:03]:

It gave me a lot of respect for the show and also for a lot of magicians that went on it. You know, you see it from a different lens when you're looking at it from a critical point of view. What I was doing on the show, you know, in taking notes and looking for little magic details and things like that, makes you think about things in a different way. And it really made me appreciate behind the scenes for the first time. You know, I've been on stage and performing my whole life. I've never really taken time to consider what it's like to do everything behind the scenes. And it did help me learn how to criticize my own work in a different way because I spent a year watching hundreds of magic acts, looking for all these little details on how you would improve it, how would you shorten it, how would you want the audience to experience it? So I was able to kind of take the same lens I put on these other acts and then put it on myself, which I think was an important skill to learn. 'Cause it's so hard to criticize ourselves.

Gabriella Lester [00:39:51]:

It's so hard to have healthy criticism of your own acts and to watch yourself perform. And doing that made me more okay with taking a fine line marker to my own work.

Adrian Tennant [00:40:01]:

James calls David Copperfield his foremost professional inspiration. I asked James what it is about David's work that inspires him the most.

James More [00:40:12]:

I grew up watching David Blaine on the television. He was a pioneer with the street magic. Copperfield wasn't really on my TV at the time when I first got into magic. I sort of discovered him a little bit later, but I just remember thinking, wow, this guy has got everything, not just within the tricks themselves, but the theatrical side of it, you know? And he had an amazing team of people around him, you know, Joanie Spina for the choreography, Chris Kenner, Don Wayne, Jim Steinmeyer, some amazing names within magic working with him. So of course, no man's an island, but I believe that he's very good at noticing where his weaknesses were and bringing in people to help train him and improve those areas. In terms of the storytelling, the theatrical experience, the magic itself, the choreography, the lighting, the set design, all these other aspects that we don't necessarily consider as magicians, he's thought about and made an experience that's unchallenged.

Adrian Tennant [00:41:09]:

Mm-hmm.

James More [00:41:10]:

I really believe that. Yeah. As magicians, we are constantly trying to study other things and improve ourselves as performers, but he's the most fulfilled, I think.

Adrian Tennant [00:41:20]:

Broadway audiences will also see 2 special guests during the run. I asked Matthew about them. Eden Choi, the Korean magician best known as a 2025 Britain's Got Talent semi-finalist, will be appearing in Now You See Me live performances from November 11th through the 29th. Now, I believe you've worked with Eden before?

Matthew Pomeroy [00:41:42]:

I am 100% promising you, you gave me full goosebumps as you said Eden Choi's name. He is – I can't even begin to tell you. I think in every show, there is a moment that is worth the price of the ticket. Then if you get more than one of those moments, you've seen an amazing show. Now, we're blessed that in Now You See Me, there are hopefully hundreds of those moments. But Eden Choi, we watched him in the rehearsal room and didn't know what to expect. He made 4 magicians and a team of creative consultants and producers and tech stop, scream, gasp, and go and cuddle him because we didn't know what to do. I stood and watched him in the wing every single show.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:42:20]:

Eden Choi has that similar feeling of, you don't know how it's happening. And he's explained to me how it's happening, and I still don't know. The beats of the music that he has, his command of the audience. There's a moment where he tells the audience to shush. So he puts his finger to his mouth and he does this shush gesture, and people scream at that. Because he has this otherworldly thing where when he's there, you have to watch him. People don't sit in their dressing rooms. We all run to the wings.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:42:52]:

I've even collected his cards, the cards that he leaves on the stage. I have a collection of them. In 20, 30 years, people in magic will be talking about, did you see Eden Choi? And this is your chance to see Eden Choi on Broadway.

Adrian Tennant [00:43:06]:

Got it. Well, for performances from December 1st to January 3rd, Korean magician Yollin Lee, who was named the Magic Circle Stage Magician of the Year in Manipulation in 2024, will join the company. Matthew, have you seen Yollin perform before?

Matthew Pomeroy [00:43:23]:

Only on media, so only via YouTube and videos, never in person. But I've heard nothing but exceptional things, and I think it's gonna be the same, the same thing. Tash and I have worked 20 years to make 15 shows, and they're all 2 hours long, and they're all different. These performers have worked their whole lives on 3, 4-minute acts, and the attention to detail and the perfection – they find moments that I wouldn't think about, and it's a true joy. It really is a treat to see the greatest performers in the world. And I'm not including myself on that list. I'm honored and blessed to be in the conversation, but to stand and watch and be surrounded by such talent is an absolute privilege, honor, and blessing.

Adrian Tennant [00:44:13]:

Just a reminder that you can be notified when new episodes of this podcast are published by subscribing to the email alerts. You'll find all the details on the podcast website at TheMagicBookPodcast.com, which is where you can also find transcripts plus accompanying blog posts with summaries, timestamps, and links to the resources mentioned in each episode. I asked each of the Horsemen about their favorite moments in Now You See Me Live, starting with Darcy. You bring sleight of hand, grand illusion, and escapes to the stage. What's the moment in the show you're looking forward to most each night?

Darcy Oake [00:44:56]:

So, without giving anything away, the, the thing that I'm looking forward to the most in the show is also the thing that I'm not looking forward to the most in the show. I'm doing an escape stunt, which I've been working on for years, really. And it leaves me with that anxiety feeling throughout the day leading up to it because it's dangerous. But I know the impact that it has. So it's like this internal conundrum that's like, oh, I know this is amazing on stage, but yeah, it stresses me out so much kind of thing. So it's like one of those things. But then the whole time with that is that this is what I decided, you know, this is what I wanted my life to be. So it's sort of changing that anxiety feeling into excitement because of the impact, you know, it can have.

Darcy Oake [00:45:39]:

So it's tricky because like, I know what can go wrong and has gone wrong. But when it all goes right, it's amazing. So, it's taking big swings over here, if you will.

Adrian Tennant [00:45:50]:

Next, Matthew. What's the moment in the show you look forward to the most each night in Now You See Me Live?

Matthew Pomeroy [00:45:58]:

Can I give you 2?

Adrian Tennant [00:46:00]:

Yeah.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:46:00]:

The intro is one of my favorite moments because it feels like we're in a movie. People that love the films come along not knowing what to expect. And I open the show with this theatrical monologue, which sings to my loves of theater because it feels like, here we are, we've arrived. And the audience connect instantly, and it really is that gasp and scream, incredible moments of magic happening all around you within 3 minutes. So I love the opening, but my true favorite is the end, when we stand together, we tell the stories of our childhoods. And it's the first time the 4 of us are together on stage in a poignant and powerful moment. We've met during the course of the show, but now you learn about us as children, and the whole audience becomes connected. From the very back row to the very front row, something happens with all of us that brings us all together in the most unexpected way, and it makes people cry. It makes me cry. It starts a standing ovation.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:47:01]:

In London at the Coliseum, we've got 78 standing ovations in 65 shows.

Adrian Tennant [00:47:06]:

Wow.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:47:06]:

And that ending never fails. to amaze and have a memory that will play and replay in people's minds forever.

Adrian Tennant [00:47:14]:

Gabriella's favorite moment takes her back into the audience.

Gabriella Lester [00:47:19]:

I'll be doing a couple different things, which is really exciting for me. I won't give too much away, but the cool thing about this show is we do solo pieces and we do some acts together, so it's a mixture of everything. So you'll see me on my own and then you'll see me with the guys, and it's just a really fun, cool show. And I do have a moment where I get to be out in the audience and performing with them, and that's something I love because it, it puts me back in my parlor setting, which I love, where I'm just surrounded and up close with people and playing and having fun and get to do the crowd work again. So I'm really excited for that. But there's just – there's so much in the show that I look forward to. So I hope you get to see it.

Adrian Tennant [00:47:51]:

James looks forward to a moment in the show that evokes a collective reaction.

James More [00:47:57]:

I love the piece. I don't want to ruin the show, obviously, but there's a piece that we do which is an ensemble piece. And what I love about it is the nostalgic feeling it gives to an audience. You know, as magicians, I think people feel sometimes that we're just out to fool them or to trick them, but it's so much more than that to us. You know, we want to make people feel something, you know, especially as performers as well. And that's certainly one moment in the show where people can reconnect with their childhood and give them that nostalgic feeling. And that's a huge takeaway for us as performers as well, to be able to give people that.

Adrian Tennant [00:48:30]:

This is The Magic Book Podcast. So, of course, I asked each of the horsemen about books. In 2015, Darcy Oake published “Behind the Illusion: Unlocking the Nine Types of Magic,” a book written for a general audience. So I'm curious, Darcy, how did you settle on the 9 types?

Darcy Oake [00:48:51]:

I mean, it's a little bit different in today's day and age with the amount of tech and everything that we have. But fundamentally, there are really like 9 types of tricks. Someone appears, someone disappears, you read someone's mind, you can switch places, move, blah, blah, blah, that whole thing. And it's really just your personal opinion, your style, your just everything about you that makes it that thing. So narrowing down the whole thing to the 9 fundamental effects and then how they can kind of be combined or reapproached or put a different sort of spin on to make them feel different.

Adrian Tennant [00:49:25]:

I couldn't help noticing that chapter 5 of your book on disappearances is titled “Now You See Me.”

Darcy Oake [00:49:33]:

There you go!

Adrian Tennant [00:49:35]:

More than a decade before you'd play one of the Horsemen on Broadway. So, okay, when you wrote that chapter, did you have any idea how much that phrase would end up meaning to you?

Darcy Oake [00:49:48]:

Absolutely not. And that's sort of par for the course for my entire career. It's like I can look back on every single show and be like, oh, that if I didn't do that show, that wouldn't have led to this. Or if I didn't meet that person, et cetera, et cetera. And you never have any idea. You just have to wing it and go for it and be optimistic and be prepared and reflect on it. And that's sort of like the, uh, just the way my life has unfolded. You just really go for it, put everything into it and see what happens really.

Darcy Oake [00:50:17]:

So yeah, I had no clue it was going to, it was going to tie into this at all.

Adrian Tennant [00:50:20]:

Matthew's book doesn't look like a magic book at all. Your Las Vegas Gambling Guide looks like a pair of tourist guides, but also hides some secrets.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:50:32]:

Yeah. Wow, that's a deep cut. Wow.

Adrian Tennant [00:50:35]:

Matthew, how did that project come into being?

Matthew Pomeroy [00:50:38]:

It was COVID, and I wanted to create something for the magic community. And I've always loved book tests and book effects. I think they're natural hide-in-plain-sight. You can leave books on the side, then introduce them seamlessly. So I created, as you said, 2 Las Vegas guides that you'd find in any reception of any hotel in Vegas. And inside there, you'd find Blue Man Group, and Now You See Me, and all of the shows that are on, plus the buffets and the excursions. They look normal, but inside each of them is 30 effects. So they hide many, many things. I use them all the time, actually.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:51:17]:

Yeah. I think they might now be out of stock. We did 1,000, and they went. Maybe to be reintroduced. But yeah, they're really fun. I've actually left them on the concierge and then gone to get them to perform in hotel lobbies many, many times.

Adrian Tennant [00:51:31]:

Nice.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:51:32]:

Great question. No one's ever asked me that.

Adrian Tennant [00:51:35]:

Gabriella Lester is writing her first book right now. I asked where the project stands.

Gabriella Lester [00:51:42]:

Yeah, that should be coming out next year. That was something that was meant to come out this year. But then this tour happened and it felt like something I really wanted to include, and I felt like I'd kick myself forever if I didn't include this incredible year. So, it should be early next year that'll come out and it'll include bits and pieces. I'll end it kind of with what this year has been like for me. So, that's the last final chapter.

Adrian Tennant [00:52:04]:

James hasn't written a book yet, so I asked him what his would hypothetically be about.

James More [00:52:11]:

I would say, stay true to yourself. And don't compare yourself to others. When I was performing in The Illusionists, I had this terrible habit as a performer of trying to compare myself to other acts. In fact, I remember I used to do a manipulation act and we had Yu Ho-Jin in the show, who's the world's greatest manipulator. And I watched his act and I just thought, “Well, there's no point in doing card manipulation,” you know? So I packed it in, I gave it up. There were things Ho-Jin was doing, you know, that worked for his style, that wouldn't necessarily work for mine. And I think it's important to remember that the most unique thing we have as performers are ourselves. I was getting very, I guess, anxious and kind of, in a way, not paranoid, but I guess, yeah, very self-conscious about myself as a performer.

James More [00:52:57]:

You know, I was alongside Kevin James and Luís de Matos and all these amazing performers who are honed in their craft and they've been doing it for years. You know, and trying to somehow keep up with them. But ultimately, I was still very young and still learning at the time. And the best thing I could do was learn from them and listen and stay modest and humble. So, my book would be about, I guess, yeah, staying true to yourself and not comparing yourself to others and just trying to enjoy the journey, I guess.

Adrian Tennant [00:53:27]:

Next, the question I ask every guest on this podcast. Darcy, who learned so much from videotapes went first. Well, this is The Magic Book Podcast, so I always ask, what is your most cherished magic book or books and why?

Darcy Oake [00:53:46]:

I have one book that was like monumental. Like, not to say I never read any magic books before, but I just veered more towards the video. “Magic and Showmanship” was such a big one for me.

Adrian Tennant [00:53:56]:

Mm-hmm. Henning Nelms.

Darcy Oake [00:53:57]:

Yeah. And all of the psychology of like, you know, you're an actor playing the part of a magician and et cetera, et cetera. And all of that, that really resonated with me when I was young, especially when I was conflicted about telling my high school peers of what I was doing. So reading that, that really put a lot into perspective for me and sort of helped me just personally with all of that. I'm trying to develop this thing that I love so much, but also keep it a secret from these kids because I don't want to get bullied, but I know the impact it can have and how cool it can be. And then reading that book was like, oh, okay, okay, here we go. And that sort of changed my perception of it and set me on a sort of different personal path, if you will, with my relationship to it growing up.

Darcy Oake [00:54:39]:

And because the thing is, most kids, like, they'll learn a couple magic tricks when they're a kid, and it's – maybe they remember them as they get older, but most kids grow out of it and it's just a little thing. And I just never grew out of it, and I just kept going. And then reading these books where it really started putting things into perspective, like “Magic and Showmanship,” was powerful for me. And it was like exactly the book that I needed at that time. And it helped me a lot.

Adrian Tennant [00:54:59]:

Matthew picked a legend of British magic.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:55:03]:

I'm not sure if it's a fair answer because it's out of print and super hard to get, but David Berglas has his whole work, his whole repertoire. It's every effect that Berglas ever performed on telly, plus his theater show, in this book. [“The Mind and Magic of David Berglas” by David Britland] And it is my prized possession, and I love it. However, for something accessible by everybody, Tarbell. I think Tarbell has all of the books. There's a selection and collection of them, but they have everything from mentalism to card magic to grand illusions. So because I always veered towards the more theatrical mind reading, Annemann and “13 Steps”, they were always my benchmarks. But for anybody who loves magic, just to soak into the art form, Tarbell is the choice for me.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:55:48]:

And probably the first book, because it introduces you to the way of thinking of the rest.

Adrian Tennant [00:55:55]:

Gabriella's cherished book took her years to track down.

Gabriella Lester [00:55:59]:

I'm really gonna sound like a nerd with this answer, but there is a book that's on the relationship between Harry Houdini and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. And when I was 18, I was backpacking in Europe, and I went to the Magic Circle, and I found a copy of this book in the library there. And I almost cried because it was so beautiful. And I'd been so fascinated with Houdini and their relationship for so long that I made it my life's mission to find this book. And so I checked every magic bookstore, every store online, every magic convention for the next few years. And eventually I found a first edition copy at some magic convention a few years ago and spent far too much money on it. So for me, that's probably my most cherished book. And I don't read it enough because I'm trying to protect it.

Gabriella Lester [00:56:41]:

So, it's cherished, but it's under-read.

Adrian Tennant [00:56:44]:

That book is “Houdini and Conan Doyle: The Story of a Strange Friendship,” published in 1932.

Gabriella Lester [00:56:52]:

But I will say it's pretty hard to find, unfortunately.

Adrian Tennant [00:56:56]:

And James named the books that took him from beginner to illusionist.

James More [00:57:02]:

I think the obvious answer is, you know, my first magic book, which was a book by John Day, and it had a few basic tricks in, but certainly had the most profound influence on me as I was getting into magic. As I started developing my skills and growing within my magic career, I was reading more advanced books. “The Annotated Magic of Slydini” was one.

Adrian Tennant [00:57:25]:

Mm-hmm.

James More [00:57:26]:

Tommy Wonder's “The Books of Wonder.” They had a huge influence on me watching his magical brain work and how he thought about magic. I've recently read “Before We Begin” by Asi Wind, which is a book not based necessarily on the tricks themselves, but what to do before the show, how to prepare an audience before the magic begins. So that's a very interesting read as well. So these are a few of the books that have had a profound influence on me, and they're not necessarily stage magic books, you'd probably expect with someone doing illusions. You know, I'm fascinated by all areas of magic and I love to read about close-up magic and I love to read about principles of magic, you know, within that field as well. Obviously Steinmeyer's books, massive influence on me as an illusionist. But yeah, I like to get a wide range and I think it's important to read because although you can learn maybe faster from watching on a video, you pick up certain habits of other people.

James More [00:58:25]:

So when you read, you are forced to train and learn the way you would naturally.

Adrian Tennant [00:58:30]:

And finally, what makes Now You See Me Live such a unique experience? Matthew sums it up like this.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:58:40]:

Now You See Me is a spectacle, and there's not many of them in the world. And I know that my job and position of Horseman is to try and sell the show, but I don't really need to because there is very few opportunities that you get to see this level of production budget and magic on stage with the performers and the performances that you have. It's a little diamond, I think, that's traveling and touring around that people contact me now and say, I've just flown to New York to resee this thing because of the feelings that it gave me.

Adrian Tennant [00:59:13]:

Hmm.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:59:13]:

[MUSIC FADES IN] So I guess my last point and overarching thought is just don't miss it. Like, really don't miss it because these things don't come around often. And when they do, capture it and soak it in. It's a special show. You won't forget it, and we can't wait to see you on Broadway.

Adrian Tennant [00:59:31]:

My thanks to each performer for being my guest on the podcast. Darcy Oake.

Darcy Oake [00:59:36]:

Thank you so much, and I really, really appreciate the level of research and the questions and everything that you've asked and put into this.

Adrian Tennant [00:59:42]:

Matthew Pomeroy.

Matthew Pomeroy [00:59:44]:

Thank you so much for having me. I can't wait to see you, hopefully, in New York City.

Adrian Tennant [00:59:47]:

James More.

James More [00:59:49]:

Thank you very much, Adrian. It's lovely talking to you.

Adrian Tennant [00:59:51]:

And Gabriella Lester.

Gabriella Lester [00:59:53]:

I loved your questions. You asked me things I haven't been asked before, which I really love and appreciate. So thank you.

Adrian Tennant [00:59:59]:

You've been listening to The Magic Book Podcast. In this episode, we met the Four Horsemen of Now You See Me Live ahead of its Broadway opening. My thanks to the team at Aperture PR for making these conversations possible. Now You See Me Live begins performances at the Al Hirschfeld Theatre on Broadway from Wednesday, November 11th for 8 weeks only through January 3rd. For tickets, visit broadway.nowyouseemelive.com. You'll also find a transcript of this episode on our website at themagicbookpodcast.com, along with a blog post containing a summary, timestamps, and links to all the books mentioned. If you'd like to be notified when new episodes are published, please subscribe to our email alerts. All the details are on the website.

Adrian Tennant [01:00:51]:

And if you have a question or would like to suggest a topic or a guest for a future episode, you can reach me at adrian@themagicbookpodcast.com. Thanks for listening to The Magic Book Podcast. I've been your host, Adrian Tennant. Until next time, goodbye. [MUSIC FADES OUT]